A chat with Abubakar Salim about being a gamer, Surgent Studios, and House of The Dragon

One of PAX Aus 2024’s big guests this year was Abubakar Salim. Outside of gaming, fans know him for his recent role in House of the Dragon as Alyn of Hull, and his appearance in the popular Dungeons & Dragons livestream, Critical Role. But in the gaming sphere, he voiced Bayek in Assassin’s Creed Origins, in which he received a BAFTA Games Award for his performance. He’s also the CEO and Creative Director of Surgent Studios, the video game company behind Tales of Kenzera: Zau. In addition, he provided additional voices for a variety of video game titles, such as Diablo.

During the three-day weekend event, Salim shared his story and love for video games through his meet-and-greets and various PAX panels. On Sunday morning, he took the time out of his busy schedule to meet with Checkpoint to talk more about his passion for video games, elaborate on what he said during the convention, and share some thoughts about House of the Dragon. 

Note – this interview was conducted before it was announced that Surgent Studios placed its games division team on hiatus.

Aside from your acting career, you also have appeared in a variety of video games. One big title being Assassins Creed Origins, but you also did voices for other games like Diablo and Xenoblade Chronicles. If there is a franchise you’d like to dip your toes into next, what would it be?

That’s a great question. I’d say the Legacy of Kain franchise. So all the Soulrific games like Blood Omen, that kind of stuff. I’m a big Legacy of Kain fan, so if I could find a way to get into that, that would be super dope.

Really? I’m surprised you said that because I went to your Fireside Chat panel at PAX on Friday and you said that you have a “big love for Sonic the Hedgehog.” And knowing your acting and video game resume, Sonic 4 probably?

Oh, man. Sonic would work too. I love Sonic. I think I’m more of a fan of playing it and taking in the world that way, in the same way that I love, like, Mario. I don’t ever see myself as actually being in Mario. I just love playing them. But yeah, I think, if the Sonic team came up and said ‘Hey, do you want to be in Sonic the Hedgehog?‘ I’d be like ‘Yeah!‘

So as I mentioned, you had a solo Fireside chat panel, where you spoke about your experiences with video games, through different lenses, not only as a gamer, but also as a voice actor and a CEO and Creative Director. Do you think you have some sort of advantage when producing games knowing you’re able to see the hobby and industry through different perspectives?

Yeah, absolutely! I think the way that I’m always looking at things is like, you know, where’s the fun? Would I enjoy this as a gamer? Would I play this game, right? So there is definitely that aspect and element of it that I do think of. I think most creatives and most people who do make games, you hope that they are seeing it from their perspective as well. Like kinda wanting to be like ‘Would I play this?’ ‘Would I have fun in this?’ One of the strengths I have with having been in all those different sorts of spaces and places is knowing, for example, when it comes to directing other voice actors, knowing the best way of talking to them about it and how to coax something out of them, right? Because I always think about it like, ‘Ohh, how would I have liked to have been directed before in the past?’ So yeah, definitely helps.

You also said during that panel that when you were working on Assassin’s Creed and other video game work you’ve done, you saw the behind-the-scenes, and that inspired you to start your own studio. Could you describe the exact moment that led to that decision? 

I was in the booth with one of the sort of audio designers, and we were talking about the process of making a game, what that takes and what they are doing. The amount of passion and love that they shared and the love that they had for Assassin’s Creed and just the enjoyment of games as a whole, really inspired me to be like ‘I wanna be a part of that. I wanna, you know, wanna aid and help that,’ and I think that was really cool. And then there was another moment as well when I played Origins, but it was like, very much like a grey box. Nothing. None of the art was there really. It was very, very basic. But it was fun, and I was like ‘Ohh, this is cool. This is how games are made.’ That was also really cool and inspiring. 

So let’s talk about the first game that your studio, Surgent Studios released – Tales of Kenzera: Zau. It came out this year and it was inspired by your own experience of grief, especially with the loss of your father. Was there a moment of your journey that you struggled to translate to the game? 

It wasn’t really a struggle. It was almost like a puzzle in a way. Like ‘How do I do this? What’s the best way of kind of approaching this?’, that I was thinking about that and feeling. Because to me, in my eyes, it was very important to sort of look at it in the way that felt like, ‘OK, how do I authentically tell this experience through this game that feels right?’ And one of the big things as well that I was looking at was ‘How do I also make it fun?’ Because again, the last thing you wanna do is tell people that you’re making a game about grief, and they’re like, ‘Oh, I don’t wanna play this depressing thing.’ But like, I would say it was more of a puzzle and more of a way of being kind of honest, but at the same time trying to also give a good experience. That was the whole puzzle as a whole, trying to deliver this game. It wasn’t even a real struggle, really. It was just, like, constantly trying to figure out what’s the best way of doing this, you know?

Yeah, I could see why you think it’s a puzzle you want to share that experience with others, but at the same time, you have to find a balance to tell a meaningful and emotional story, while not, you know, making people really sad and turned off. 

Exactly! And I think like that was the challenge, you know. And I think I enjoyed that. Don’t get me wrong, I think everyone has that, especially game developers, you always have that challenge of ‘How do I make a game that feels that people are gonna wanna play?’ People are going to enjoy and have fun like that as always there. There was definitely the added element of ‘How do I convey something so personal to me and like a personal feeling that can also feel universal to anyone?’

You also mentioned during the panel that you saw grief as this alien world type of feeling rather than just a feeling. When I heard that, I was like ‘Ohh, that’s like an interesting way to explore that emotion’. Because when I feel grief, I just go into depression mode for like months and months. But you, the way you interpret it is quite unique in my opinion. So, I kinda found it interesting that you took that concept of, if grief is going to be this alien-like feeling, let’s make it into this adventure-type thing. 

Yeah, Cause it is! It’s this whole thing of like, you’re thrown into a world that you have no control over. It feels alien, and there is a feeling of, the longer I spend time in it, the more I get used to it, the idea of it all as a whole. So yeah, 100% like it is something that feels like an alien vibe.

What are you hoping people would take away when playing this game? 

I think, really, truly, the thing that I want people to take away is like, on the mythology front, like I always said it this way. I was always like, look, I want people to play this game and go on to Google and go down that rabbit hole, that Wikipedia rabbit hole, like ‘OK I wanna know more about mythology as a whole.‘ But I think from a holistic aspect really, truly, I just want people to sort of see that you know you’re not alone in that journey of grief and even though you may feel alone, and that is your individual journey, it’s OK not to be OK. I think that that has been something that I wish I’d learned even when I was going through it myself. And I want people to really take that on board and sort of journey with that. 

I remember you saying that you were inspired by a quote from the show, WandaVision. And you couldn’t remember it, but fortunately, I was rewatching the show. ‘What is grief, if not love persevering.’

Oh what a beautiful quote, man. It’s such a beautiful quote. Yeah, and I think that is really, truly what I wanted to kind of flag. It’s of course you will feel sad and you’ll feel there is a feeling of sadness, anger, of confusion that kind of comes with it. But that’s all because it’s like love it is love. 

We have yet to hear what’s next for Surgent Studios. So while you may not be able to tell us the name of your next project or the release date, is there another story that you would like to tell through video games? 

There are a hundred and one stories that I’d want to tell through video games. I think like, we’re at a place now where it’s, we’ve kind of done our first thing. We want to do more, we wanna kinda, you know, bring more out there. And the team are really excited and are jumping to something kinda really cool next. So, yeah. I think it’s important to continue to tell stories through games, coz games are awesome.

And since we have extra time, let’s talk about your time at Game of Thrones. You were in House of the Dragon Season 2 as Alyn of Hull. When we last spoke during your meet-up, you said that it was ‘the most weirdest job you had.‘ Would you like to elaborate on that? 

You know what? It’s the fact that it is such a huge show and I’ve never worked on a production that is so big and so potent and powerful as this. There is so much going on with this show, and I think that’s what’s really cool and enjoyable about it. And also, really weird because it is again, as I say, like it isn’t scrappy kind of what I’m used to like as a small show or like an indie show, and even like Raised by Wolves. It was big, but it wasn’t to the scale of what this is like. We were filming in a studio the whole time and it’s, all the props and all the sets were, immaculate and detailed. It is just a beast of a show. 

Yeah, like Season 2 was like, there was a lot going on. It was a setup for an upcoming conflict, which I will not say because it’s spoilers. I think the best question to ask is, will we see more of Alyn in season 3? 

Well, that’s the hope. Yeah, you will definitely. I think we’re in a place now where there’s been a lot of setup. There’s been a lot of introductions and now we’re like you know these characters, you know who they are. So you’ll definitely see more. So I think it is one of those ones where I know the writers are working hard at conjuring something really cool for Season 3. So, it’s gonna be a lot, I’ll tell you that. 

Do you have like any final words you’d like to say in terms of, your thoughts on the video game world as a gamer or..? 

I said before, I think we’re in a really interesting time within the game space and entertainment as a whole. I think there are a lot of really cool projects out there, really cool developers out there and it is just about now enjoying that and diving more into that, you know. I’m having a lot of fun and I just hope that we can just continue doing that really as a whole. I just want to say thank you very much for talking to me about this stuff because I love talking about it. I think it’s a really fascinating and cool industry to be a part of. 

It really is, and I really do look forward to your next title. I really hope you get to present it in PAX at some time in the future. 

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that’s… a good idea actually? Maybe, we will.

Yeah! Please do. That would be super fun. It would be great to see you back again when we get to talk more about games. It’s like, you don’t always see an actor talk about video games. But you, you’re in the industry now, so it’s really cool. 

Thank you. Thank you very much. 

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Tales of Kenzera: Zau is now available on PS5, Xbox Series X, Nintendo Switch and Steam.